The Work And Authority of Elders

Work and Authority of Elders: Covenant of Membership: Sowing Discord Musically at Madison Church of Christ, Nashville.

Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Phil 4:8

Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you. Phil 4:9

If you are studying the Holy Spirit at Madison you might want to bone up on Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly who are quite unique in defining the Holy Spirit as a third member of the God "family." There is no Biblical or historical scholarship which does not go to the extreme when defining the TRINITY without warning that the Godhead is NEVER SEPARATED into three PERSONS. Rather, the Godhead is manifested in three and often many more forms of PERSONAE or manifestations. Paul Tillich warns that before the liberal 19th century it would have been blasphemy to call the Godhead persons instead of personae or ways in which the Invisible God makes Himself known in the world.

John Mark Hicks warns that the INCARNATIONAL views of Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly diminishes the humanity of Jesus Christ. That "denies that Christ came fully in the flesh" and that we relate to Jesus the Man as the visible image of the invisible God. Therefore, we do not relate to a SUBSTITUTE for the Son whose first name is HOLY and last name is SPIRIT. Tshis refusal to deal with a human Jesus leads to charismatic and musical pseudo-worship trying to get and peddle drug-induced FEELINGS as the movement of one third of the God FAMILY. This is defined by John as tampering with being an anti-Christ:

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1Jn.4:3

Pastors are mistaken if they imagine that they are invested with the government of the church on any other terms than that of being ministers and witnesses of the truth of God. John Calvin

Commentary on E-Mail to the Concerned Members Forum (from the cheap seats).

Are Elders Hand Picked By The Holy Spirit?

THERE NEVER IS A MUSIC TERM CONNECTED WITH THE WORSHIP OF GOD IN ANY DISPENSATION. Music is frequently identified as the cause and MARK that one will not listen to the words of Christ. All musical terms and names of instruments (many Greek even in the OT) have roots in that which is evil, destructive (melody or psallo) or even Satanic.

Israel's Elder's Prayers were Answered: God gave them a king to carry out His sentence at Mount Sinai to send them back under those from whom God had delivered them. They replaced "like the nation's" musical practices to lead them into captivity and defeat: to the beat of musical instruments

Therefore, no elder has the right to impose "musical worship" or theatrical performance to replace teaching as a Christian synagogue with a human king "set over us." That was always attributed to Satan or Lucifer personified as the king/queen of Tyre, the king/queen of Babylon and the end-time Babylon Harlot (Rev 18). But the musicians and instruments will again go into Sheol.

The Seeker-Center is in direct imitation of the Seeker Center of Apollo who is the Biblical Apollyon or Abbadon. Click to see how he made himself seem supernatural and used music to make his center into a money tree. Apollyon (the destroyer) has been aroused in the end time as prophesied.

While we do not know the elders at Madison church of Christ in Nashville, we will direct our comments in a generic way based on the growing use of covenants along with the mega-churches which always get too hot to handle. This covenant was posted on the Concerned Members Forum:

Quotations from: "Bobby M. Johnson's Commentary on Buck Dozier's Covenant of Membership.

"Buck Dozier and the other Madison Church of Christ Elders have aligned themselves with certain "outside influences". These influences have helped the Elders "LORD" over the membership unscriptural beliefs, teachings, and doctrines. Thru these actions Buck, certain other Elders, certain teachers, and certain members have divided the congregation into two different groups of differing beliefs. To learn more of our possible future and what may be in store for us please read on. One such outside influence is the Saddleback Valley Community Church in California.

"Rick Warren uses Rock Music and little or no reference to the unattractive notions of sin to attract new members. These new members are then required to sign a COVENANT that commits them to tithing plus participation in a small group, a lay ministry, and a missions outreach. New members who study with Saddleback in their series of high-commitment purpose-driven classes are required to sign further covenants before they can progress to the next classes.

http://www.purposedriven.com

To verify the covenants go to the specific webpage below:

http://www.purposedriven.com/pdc/saddleback_20th/saddleback_20th.htm

"The Madison Elders have sent Frank Scott to Saddleback to learn from them. Tom Haddon has been to Saddleback and has taught the Homebuilders Class about their methods. Tom has prophesied that the church as we know it will be changed completely and our songbooks with their old songs will be taken away. A tape of Tom's teachings on February 25, 2001 has been transcribed and studied in depth. Church division was taught at on February 25, 2001 by Tom Haddon." Bobby Johnson.

Spiritual Terrorism

When one captures a church and forces pagan worship practices and sows discord among the brethren, and then suggests that you get with the program or get out that person is guilty of a terminal sin.

When one tries to convert your congregation into his own "venue for musical entertainment" then he is stealing the church house of widows. The work and authority of elders does not extend that far: He has sinned beyond redemption.

No church of Christ, non-instrumental, has ever or would stoop so low as to infiltrate like terrorists into a happy instrumental church and subvert the purpose for which that church was organized and building paid for in order to impose a CULTISH COVENANT OF MEMBERSHIP to force the members to follow, like drowning lemmings, the ELDERS believed by some to be CELESTIAL BEINGS, when they intend to fire the choir and smash up the instrument.

To make sure that the terrorists are never terrorized they then make you become a card-carrying member to guarantee your locked-step loyalty without any right to complain!

The only honest alternative for a leader who is not happy with the doctrine and practices of a church is that he is duty bound, honesty bound, ethically bound and minimally part of the human species bound to leave and "search and collect" his own flock and provide them with housing. If he tries to confiscate your property or permits "moles" to subvert your church then he is a thief.

If he offends those who are easily deceived over the objections of those who are Biblically superior then God will hang a millstone around his neck.

Are Elders Celestial Beings?

James R. Cope: "In matters of judgment and expediency, those meeting the divine qualifications of bishops are supreme and their word is final. The Holy Spirit has appointed them and to resist their authority is to rebel against the Holy Spirit.   God knew that the final decisions in the sphere of expediency had to be made by somebody, and divine wisdom has provided for them in the eldership.   Regardless of the individual's judgment, it becomes his solemn obligation to acquiesce in the bishop's rule when that rule is announced.   For all practical purposes, their decision is God's decision, and therefore, must become the disciple's decision.   To do otherwise is to nullify the office of elders and reflect upon God's purpose in providing them..." James R. Cope, Guardian of Truth, September 19, 1985. If that is radically outrageous then members are taught to believe it: An E-Mailer from Madison Church of Christ: "What can't you understand about the great commission? "This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority (kuriotes or Lords). [such as our elders that are bashed on some of your website links]   Bold and arrogant these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings (beings worthy of worship); yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful,   do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord." 2 Peter 2:10-11 Jesus: "Those who are supposed to rule over the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them [Jesus said to his disciples]. But it shall not be so among you!" {Mark 10:42b-43a RSV} If an elder lords it over the flock then Jesus would define him out of the "among you" even for inspired apostles. Therefore, dominant leadership is to claim superiority to the apostles and perhaps "celestial beings" are among us.

Because in song and sermon and in Bible classes the Word has been deprived of its literal and spiritual value, it is possible that those who get picked to be elders are, like some evangelists, believed to have been "picked and empowered by the sovereign grace of God." True, if own believes himself inspired as a 13th apostle then being rebuked comes hard. However, not even Jesus rebuked those who rebuked Him: they just didn't matter in His scheme of things. This seems strange and perverse in that not even the President of the United States is immune from questioning, refuting and rebuking. However, the president would not stoop to call the press a group of gossips and therefore equate them to murderers.

But, the fact is that the role of the elder is much more limited than one imagines from the corporate, secular, command leadership model which has no place in the spiritual kingdom of Christ.

When Elders elevate themselves to being Holy Gost Ordained and their sheep consider them LORDS and CELESTIAN BEINGS then you have a problem. However, Peter was considering celestial beings who had fallen. According to the Book of Enoch and similar documents "God will come with then thousand of His host to execute Judgment." The sin was introducing mixed-sex choirs and instrumental music to seduce the holy people away from the Living Word. Lucifer (ZOE) was their male/female musical worship facilitator (manipulator).

If you believe that your rulers are actually lords or celestial beings then to dare to question them is slander!

Here are some comments about this covenant of Madison Church of Christ in Nashville, which is anti-biblical and therefore anti-Christian:

1. I will share the responsibility of our church family

by praying for the power of God and the Holy Spirit to come upon its ministry.

There is not the remotest hint that one "makes the church work" by praying for supernatural power of the Holy Spirit to COME UPON THIS MINISTRY. That is charismatic and unBiblical. In all of the teaching or "singing" passages the Spirit is the Word of Christ.

A holy spirit rules when Christ, the Spirit is "given heed to" in song and sermon. The power of God comes through sowing the seed of the kingdom, watering and just watching God's supernatural power "make the flowers grow and bloom."

The elder's "rule" is tightly tied to "teaching the Word as it has been taught" and "rebuking those who teach false doctrine." The Spirit has spoken to the elders and their authority and rulership accrues to them based on their being "apt to teach" and govern BEFORE he is identified. David Lipscomb noted that the elder acquires no more authority as the result of ordination than he had before ordination.

No one in the history of religion before the last two centuries who believed that Holy was the first name of a god whose name was Holy Spirit. Rather, the Spirit of God is the Mind of Christ (1 Cor 2) just as our spirit is our mind. If our mind or spirit is HOLY or totally dedicated to Christ and His Word then we have A holy spirit and are equipped to teach to command respect.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life Jn 6:63

Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Pet 1:11

And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Rev 19:10

If we construct "worship" to take away the Word as the central focus of church which was "synagogue" and not pagan worship center then the Spirit or Christ will not be with us because we have not gathered in HIs name or by His authority.

The Corinthians believed that music made the Holy Spirit COME upon them. However, Paul identified speaking or singing out of their own "spirit" and especially that to which the once-prophesying women were prone as speaking in tongues.

For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. Isaiah 28:11

To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. Isaiah 28:12

God caused the Assyrians to "sing" to them in tongues so that they could not understand that the triumphant army was there to defeat the nation. Paul used this in 1 Corinthians 14 to define the "self-composed" songs and sermons out of their own "spirit" which was speaking in tongues. And Jesus identified the Devil as a liar because he "spoke of his own."

Jesus identified the clergy and Jewish elders as creating the burden which was "spiritual anxiety created by religious ritual." Jesus died to give them rest but He spoke to the multitudes in parables (tongues to them) so that they would fall backward and be destroyed.

In the church, Christ is Teacher and Shepherd: those with authority must walk step into step of Jesus. The Spirit has always been the authority of God through whomever speaks for Him by His authority:

But the word (Dabar or Logos) of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Isaiah 28:13

Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Isaiah 28:14

Isaiah goes on to define the elders in Jerusalem to show that Messiah would come and speak the truth. Peter defined how the spirit is the power of Christ in His Words:

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord Ac.3:19

"Musical worship" is the most works intensive, legalistic "works of human hands" one can imagine. The Classics identify music as "singing" and "working." Therefore, external melody is twanging a bow into your heart or "psalloing" your head off with a sword:

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the (A) Holy Ghost; Tit.3:5

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1Pe.1:23

The error of Nimrod at the Tower of Babylon was that he thought that with his musical worship team he could regenerate the human mind and spirit "by external means."

Therefore, "music" is from the Greek "symphonia" and is a secular term. What we call "singing and making melody" fails if it stresses the "music" and ignores the command to teach the Word of Christ or Spirit.

The Vineyard: The Fourth Act is Reaching a Climax with the Spirit: the Fifth is Giving of Substance

By grouping opposing false elders to murder and by calling on people to have the Holy Spirit fall on the church there is a clear intent to intimidate. Those who do not function and agree (or get out) are stopping the work of the Holy Spirit which is proven by opposing the elders ordained by the Spirit. Again on the work and authority of elders and the covenant of membership at Madison Church of Christ:

2. I will support the testimony of our church family

by attending faithfully

by living a godly life

by giving regularly to support the ministry of our church family

The Corinthians volunteered to give, they did not, Paul told them that time was running our. This was a collection ONLY for the poor. In 2 Corinthians he clearly says "this is not a commandment." Therefore, giving is based on 'OWNERSHIP' of the programs and the elders have NO AUTHORITY over these affairs other than what God has given him which is primarily to "teach that which has been taught."

Therefore, to even THINK of such a signed covenant is spiritual terrorism.

If you want to get sicker yet, read parts of a Cult Covenant of Membership:

h. They shall, as part of this covenant body of believers, be entitled to spiritual covering from those whom God has placed over them in the leadership of the church for the good of their souls;

g. They shall be entitled to sow financially of their material means into the Christian ministries of this church, by honoring the Lord with their first fruits (Proverbs 3:9-10); by bringing or sending their tithes into the Lord's storehouse (Malachi 3:10; Hebrews 7:4-10); and by giving or sending their financial gifts (Luke 6:38; 2 Cor. 9:6-11) for the Lord's work, expecting a harvest. In so doing, they shall fully expect the Lord to faithfully honor His Word in assuring an abundant supply for their needs and ministry to others;

"Music plays an important part in the ministry of Life of Faith Fellowship, in both reaching the world and encouraging the believer's fellowship with God. Our praise & worship team consists of a number of anointed musicians and singers. Our styles range from contemporary rock and oldie remakes to intimate worship.

Musical performance is not one of those "gifts of God" Paul felt should be mentioned.

Tithing, like music (called noise by God) is part of the restoration of the legalistic sacrificial system.

Free will giving has always been the practice of churches of Christ and all needs have been met when the "audience" has ownership of the planned needs.

Dr. Rubel Shelly and John York in sermons have given a second incarnation to the beyond-redemption experience in the wilderness.

God said that He turned them over to worship the starry host of heaven as seen in Amos 5, 6 and most often at Jerusalem which is called "Sodom and Egypt." This is the Hagar slavery model.

Dr. Shelly and John York say that it was a pattern for Christian worship and community: that was a community of slavery where the Levites were not "musicians" but slave drivers.

In the Vineyard the next to last "act of worship" is a climax with the Holy Spirit: the last act is called "Giving of Substance."

The "musical worship teams" are admittedly a restoration of the musical (sounding) Levites who, according to Josephus, destroyed the nation twice.

Dr. Shelly claims more than the tithe for the church.

Therefore, according to all of the cult-like patterns, when you sign the contract you are signing up to the legalistic restoration of the Jewish Tithe.

To restore the legalistic pattern of Sinai, the legalistic "musical noise" of animal sacrifices and the legalistic tithe, the blind will lead the blind in falling from grace.

Tithing was a tax paid by the owner of free, developed land but only in Israel. It consisted only of food products and the wage-earner would be extorted if he was expected to pay the "rent" for a free land or workshop which he did not develop.

However, freewill offerings are open to anyone at any time. When you make this into a "contract" made with the dominant elders then you have bound that which Christ did not bind.

Paul only authorized a collection for the poor: a one time collection. In 2 Corinthians he said "this is not a command." Therefore, "giving" is not by the work and authority of elders but by everyone having "ownership" in the programs which the OWNERS have selected men whom they assumed would not squander the widow's mite on a "venue for theatrical performance" to suck in the unspiritual seekers of entertainment: a ministry of the lust of the eyes and the lust of the ears.

You know that you have a "like the nations" assembly when you set elders as kings who cannot be questioned the moment you give them the authority. God warned Israel that the kings would take their lands, sons and daughters to be his own personal servants. He would take your lands (contribute) and give it to his favorite "minister" of the pyramid of ministry power. Therefore, the kings would be thieves specificially because:

"He will take the tenth of your flocks, and you shall be his slaves. And in that day you will cry out because of your king, whom you have chosen for yourselves;

but the Lord will not answer you in that day" (1 Sam. 8:17-18).

Ecclesiasticus 48:7. who heard rebuke at Sinai and judgments of vengeance at Horeb;

Ecclesiasticus 48: 8. who anointed kings to inflict retribution,

and prophets to succeed you.

O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help. Hosea 13:9

I will be thy king: where is any other that may save thee in all thy cities? and thy judges of whom thou saidst, Give me a king and princes? Hosea 13:10

I gave thee a king in mine anger, and took him away in my wrath. Hosea 13:11

And Saul tried to stay in power by asking:

"will the son of Jesse give every one of you fields and vineyards, will he make you all commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds" (1 Sam. 22:7).

It was the king and "commanders of the army" who set the Levitical musicians over the temple.

"Therefore, thus saith Jehovah, the God of Israel, against the shepherds that FEED my people: You have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them; behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doing, saith Jehovah" (Jer. 23:2).

God does not know elders who are not Set In Their Work by THEIR OWN HOLY SPIRIT.

Again, from Madison Church of Christ in Nashville and the work and authority authority of elders as celestial beings:

3. I will protect the unity of our church family

by acting in love toward other members

by refusing to gossip (letting outsiders know our affairs)

by following the leaders God has set in our church Family

That is a claim to supernatural power the elders do not have. When God sets people in the church it is for servanthood:

For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. 1 Co.4:9

One tests whether God is involved by whether one is already working to the point of exhaustion in preaching and teaching. God does not set people in the church "assembly" in order to make them supreme commanders of the church. Lipscomb noted that "an elder has no more authority after he is ordained than he had before he was ordained" or rather "identified" as one fulfilling that role. You don't elect elders, you don't select elders, you "point the hand" at those doing the work.

First: Elders are not Rulers with Command Authority:

Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel, Acts 4:8

Rulers: Archon (g758) ar'-khone; pres. part. of 757; a first (in rank or power): - chief (ruler), magistrate, prince, ruler.

Elders: Presbuteros (g4245) pres-boo'-ter-os; compar. of presbus , (elderly); older; as noun, a senior; spec. an Isr. Sanhedrist (also fig. member of the celestial council) or Chr. "presbyter": - elder (- est), old

You don't get old, mature and spirit filled with the Word by getting elected: you have to grow into it.

Second: The unity of the church is built by Christ and not by the work and authority of elders. It is based on speaking His words in the assembly even as He as Son spoke only what He heard from the Father.

The possible division in Romans 14 is cured in Romans 15 by speaking the revealed Word of God "with one voice." That is defined in the Greek classics as "singing."

In Ephesians 5 Paul defined the unity as possible ONLY when we fill up with the Spirit which is His Word and then speak those words one to another. Appointed clergy singers is identified as "the first heresy largely pervading the church."

In Colossians 3 He demanded that we use the Word of Christ and speak one to another. The purpose is to "teach and admonish" and the WHO is the "one another."

When you use "the idolatry of talent" and have this mutual teaching "performed" then you are sinning and you need to be rebuked.

This is proof that it was not God who set the elder in the church. There is only one LORD for the entire Christian religion. He is the head. This means that whatever we do in word or deed must be guided by Him through His Word. He is the Teacher and we deprive Him of that role if we improvise our own Bible in "song and sermon." He is the only Mediator contrary to the claim of "musical worship teams" who believe they can lead you into the presence of God. Sorry, but you have slipped in by the back door and landed in the brothel of all pagan musical performance.

The Elders Demand:

Because elders assume Divine Authority because of Divine Selection they assume the authority to dismiss YOU from YOUR church if YOU do not agree with the new DOCTRINES and ESSENTIAL PRACTICES arrived at by the "God-ordained" elders. Is that a holy spirit?

"If at some time in the future, I find myself irreversibly out of harmony with the fundamental doctrines and essential practices of Madison, I will not be a source of strife and division, but will peacefully leave the fellowship. Every effort will be made to assist you in finding a church home where you will be comfortable and at peace."

That means: "This was the church you helped support for all of those years. However, God has set me in this church to define the DOCTRINES and PRACTICES of Madison Church of Christ."

"Your old views pre post-modern view of defining faith and practices has been abrogated: now we decide what you will believe, teach and practice.

"Therefore, if God had set me as an elder over His Church then you may be in trouble if you continue to wrangle over the DOCTRINES AND ESSENTIAL PRACTICES DEFINED BY CHRIST AND THE WORD.

You have a true shepherd when he weeps at the notion of driving off one lamb!

But Jesus Demands in the Misapplied Proof-text:

When strife and division results in the sheepfold it is almost always the hireling shepherd who does not love the truth who is the "TROUBLER IN ISRAEL."

He did not help "collect" the sheep but he can dismiss any lost or troubling lamb with a swat of the hands. Like the kings of the Monarchy, this makes them thieves.

Christ is the Head of the body: the elders are not; they are supposed to be the servant shepherds. They are no more honorable than the foot or toe. The elder or shepherd is specifically named the "eye" because he is the "watcher" of the flock.

The shepherd is not an elected official who suddenly gets God's approval. Rather, the shepherd or bishop is the one who oversees (ruleth?). The exhorter has as much "authority" as anyone else but only because he has the gift or talent of exhorting and not because he is an ORDAINED EXHORTER to head up the EXHORTATION MINISTRY STAFF.

God did not set elders in the church with supernatural power but if that is the claim then here is the "final exam":

That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 1 Cor 12:25

Earlier, we see that those claiming to be shepherds "work so that they have something to give" along with the others:

Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness. Romans 12:8

Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality. Romans 12:13

But, if an elder claims the role of EYE to the body, Jesus insists:

You cannot be an underling shepherd without following the chief shepherd: the Chief Shepherd came to seek and save the lost because the Jewish elders as shepherd had scattered the flock.

Christ did not come to set up a new temple with temple rulers in control to restore the "musical" (noise) part of animal sacrifices. Rather, the shepherd must do what Jesus did: go out to seek and save the lost.

The Saddleback model knows full well that at first it must SCATTER THE OLDER PEOPLE and lose membership before it begins to attract the Sucked in Seekers.

The Willow Creek knows that you cannot convert "synagogue" to "theater" without lots of strife among the church insiders.

Among churches of Christ this has been instituted as Navigating the Winds of Change.

Musical shepherds know that they are going to scatter the flock when the decibel level rises and the pure tones of unison give way to the "dog barks" of complex harmony. Therefore, once again, Jesus will come to gather the sheep because the hireling shepherds have used the sheep to "feed themselves.'

Any elder who adds "musical worship teams" in practicing the idolatry of talent when there is not a hint of "music" as a worship word to God in the entire Bible and when that elder knows before hand that he will SOW DISCORD AMONG THE BRETHREN, THAT HE WILL OFFEND MANY OF THESE LITTLE ONES AND HE DOES IT WITH A HIGH HAND HE HAS SINNED BEYOND REDEMPTION AND THE EYE NEEDS TO BE PLUCKED OUT BY THE HANDS OF THE BODY.

The Madison church of Christ Cultic Creed of Loyalty says that if one of these are lost he will remain lost because while searching for him we can engage in musical idolatry and suck in a hundred seekers of entertainment and a charismatic, sexual experience.

We will see that the task of a leader whom God has set in the church is not one who has been selected by his friends and who dared the congregation to "sow discord" by challenging the narrow choice.

The task of the leader is not buildings and grounds. The task of the shepherd is to go out looking for sheep. A shepherd does not steal another mass of sheep. Rather, he goes out seeking them. Hie is "ordained" because "he is already laboring to the point of exhaustion in preaching and teaching."

Therefore, the brother who trespasses is the one who has claimed to be the "shepherd."

If he believes that God has personally SET HIM IN THE CHURCH FAMILY then he has pronounced his own sentence if he offends "one of these little ones" or imports wolves to help him "eat the flock" according to Jeremiah.

You will notice that the "elder" as an officer with rulership given directly by God is not in this loop. Why?

The elder is not arbitrator or negotiator. Rather, as Nathan told David: "Thou art the man." You are standing in the judgment block. You must give account to the sheep. You cannot escape judgment by childishly crying out: "You're another one." Or, if you sass God's anointed then you must pledge that you will leave when I offend you.

"We have frequently used the term 'officers' with reference to the servants of the church. We have frequently affirmed that in the ordinary use of that term an 'officer' is unknown to the Christian scriptures...An officer in the ordinary acceptation of the term is one who is appointed to do a work, which he could NOT do without that appointment and to which, without the official investiture, would be a crime...

can an overseer consecrated as as he may be...

do anything as such that every Christian is not at liberty, and even is duty bound to do to the best of his ability" (David Lipscomb, The Gospel Advocate, 1867, p. 567)

The claim of selection by God.

Are Elders Hand Picked By The Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit did not single you out and make you an elder and give you supernatural power. In the deacon parallel one "full of the Holy Ghost" is one "holding the mystery of the faith." That is, either an elder or deacon has no authority beyond "teaching that which has been taught." That which has not been taught by Christ or His Apostles is not Spirit or Life (John 6:63):

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. Acts 20:28

"Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd (feed) the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. Acts 20:28NKJV

One who has A holy spirit is one who has the mental disposition of Christ.

Aside from God as pure or Holy Spirit, A Holy Spirit is having the Mind of Christ.

If you believe that a little man (holy Spirit) came into the big man (me) in order to make me, a carnal man, into your dictator is dilusional, dangerous and needs treatment because he is scattering the flock. And indeed who else but a sheep scatterer would dare to claim supernatural power and authority?

The Holy Spirit is the Mind of Christ (1 Cor 2).

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Co.2:16

The Holy Spirit is never a THIRD person separated out from the Godhead. The Holy Spirit, according to Paul, is to the Mind of God as our spirit is to our mind. We have A holy spirit when we have the Mind of Christ. Besides identifying God Himself, MENTAL DISPOSITION is the meaning of Spirit in both Greek and Hebrew:

Pneuma (g4151) pnyoo'-mah; from 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by anal. or fig. a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by impl.) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, doemon

Ruwach (h7307) roo'-akh, roo'-akh; from 7306; wind; by resemblance breath, i. e. a sensible (or even violent exhalation; fig. life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extens. a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being including its expression and functions: - air, anger, blast, breath, * cool, courage, mind, * quarter, * side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, * vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).

An elder who oversees is qualified because he already has the MENTAL DISPOSITION OF CHRIST. He has A holy or set aside spirit according to Walter Scott.

If your pals picked you and informed the congregation of the new elders then they are usurping the work and authority of elders because they have AN unholy spirit.

The shephers is first just a sheep.

If the shepherd cannot take heed to "yourselves" then "one of you" is a wolf. Majority rule on doctrinal issues is not within the authority of one shepherd who is also watching to see whether one of themselves is a wolf.

Made: The elders are "made" in the "horizontal posture." (g5087). This imitates Jesus Christ:

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. Jn.10:18

Oversight means to OVERSEE or SEE OVER. A shepherd does not straw boss: he stands on an elevated position so that he can look over the flock. He can see the sick, hungry and the wolves sneaking in. He SEES OVER the flock.

The only FOOD is the Word of God. He must feed the sheep with the Spirit of Christ or His Word.

The elders of Israel starved the people to captivity and death because the priests turned to musical religious festivals (Amos 5, 6, 8; Isaiah 5)

ELDERS TAKE OVERSIGHT IN ORDER TO FEED: NO ONE JUST TAKES THE OVERSIGHT WITHOUT QUALIFICATIONS: For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. Acts 20:27 Counsel is volition, purpose, will. They have the MIND of Christ or His Spirit. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. Acts 20:28 There are two words used: one is "holy" and the other is "spirit." The senior males are feeders now that Paul has taught them the counsel of God. They are qualified because they have a HOLY: Hagios (g40) hag'-ee-os; from hagos , (an awful thing) [comp. 53, 2282]; sacred (phys. pure, mor. blameless or religious, cer. consecrated): - (most) holy (one, thing), saint   Hagnos (g53) hag-nos'; from the same as 40; prop. clean, i.e. (fig.) innocent, modest, perfect: - chaste, clean, pure. And the holy thing is their own human Mind or Spirit: Pneuma (g4151) pnyoo'-mah; from 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by anal. or fig. a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by impl.) vital principle, mental disposition, mind. Comp. 5590. Or God Himself. Paul the apostle was not a MASTER but a slave, a deacon. He was qualified by HIS OWN SPIRT and God's WORD:   Giving no offence (stumbling block) in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed: 2 Cor 6:3   But in all things approving our selves as the ministers (DEACONS) of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, 2 Cor 6:4   In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings; 2 Cor 6:5   By (our) pureness, by (our) knowledge, by (our) longsuffering, by (our) kindness, by the (our) Holy SPIRIT, by (our) love unfeigned, 2 Cor 6:6   By the (His) word of truth, by the (His) power of God, by the (His) armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, 2 Cor 6:7   By (our) honour and (our) dishonour, by (our) evil report and good report: (REGARDED) as deceivers, and yet true; 2 Cor 6:8   When elders claim honor greater than Paul the hand-pick, Spirit (Christ) instructed apostle then someone is trying to deceive someone for some reason not Biblical They have a holy mental disposition to be "feeders" or teachers of the truth. This is important because: For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Acts 20:29 The "shepherd" in the Old Testament most often ate the sheep. That is, they lived off the income of their sheep: Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Acts 20:30   Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. Acts 20:31 If one of the elders begins to eat the lambs do we intend to say that he has been SUPERNATURALLY ORDAINED by the Holy Spirit or God and can make no mistakes? What should you do when you WATCH because you understand the Counsel of God and have A holy spirit or mind? Do you just let the wolf eat up the proceeds of the flock? Of course not! But, how can we know a wolf from a lamb or shepherd? When a hireling begins to hire "staff" and more staff he has staff infection. His co-hirelings want "an office and a crust of bread" so that they don't have to be a shepherd who FEEDS. Paul said: I have coveted no mans silver, or gold, or apparel. Acts 20:33 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. Acts 20:34 Here is that "holy spirit" or mind mental disposition without which you are not qualified: I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support (succor) the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive. Acts 20:35 In the Dominant Pastor, the pulpit as feeding place is turned over to the musical and theatrical performers. They eat up the lambs or chase them away. PARALLEL MEANING FOR THE DEACONS: When the first "deacons" were chosen they must be FULL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT and WISDOM (Acts 6:3). Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business. Acts 6:3 Paul said that this means that the deacons must be: Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 1 Tim 3:9 This means much more than "freedom from a guilty feeling." It means that all obstacles to grasping the mysteries of the faith have been cleared away: Suneidesis (g4893) soon-i'-day-sis; from a prol. form of 4894; co- perception, i.e. moral consciousness; - conscience.

Paul to the Hebrews Identifies the Ruler as the One Who Teaches You: he is not identified with a God-ordained, with eternal tenure with the "impossibility of apostasy."

When a deacon is "a deaking" then he is authorized. However, there is not a "generic deacon" who stands in line to be an elder. In the same way, the overseeing teacher is selected by the congregation to do that which they are not capable of. That "rulership" is clearly limited to the teaching of those in need.

Apt to teach does not mean: "He is as apt to chase a coon as apt to teach the Word as it has been taught."

Anyone who preaches is a preacher. Anyone who teaches the Word of God rules in the sense of applying the commandments of God. Anyone who listens and obeys is obedient. The wise elder might be taught by one not part of the "pyramid of power." If he is taught by a "regular" member then the regular member is exercising the oversight. We have no evidence that this applies to any official "officer" of the church.

Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. Heb 13:5

So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me. Heb 13: 6

Remember

Who rules: them which have the rule over you,

How rules: who have spoken unto you the word of God:

Why follow: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. Heb 13: 7

Remember is:

Mnemoneuo (g3421) mnay-mon-yoo'-o; from a der. of 3420; to exercise memory, i.e. recollect; by impl. to punish; also to rehearse: - make mention, be mindful, remember.

Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. Ac.20:31

Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Re.3:3

A person with A holy spirit or mental disposition of Christ is easy to follow: he is out front doing the seeking and saving the lost. He is faithful (not faithless) and his conduct makes us want to follow him. Any such person has moral authority but never command authority.

A "leader" is a "guide through grizzly bear company." If the leader hires on a grizzly bear to be your "hiking leader" then you have absolutely no obligation to follow the self-proclaimed leader.

If you grasp that he has no intention of being your guide by HIS faith and HIS conduct then you should not follow him: you should BRING HIM UP ON CHARGES because he is not God chosen and is "having the lambs for supper."

Many of the Nashville Wrecking Crew believe that the writings of the Bible have been "filtered" through philosophy, their own agenda and time. However, "there are seven facts about Jesus which remain undamaged by time." However, this is to deny that Christ came with power the first time and is the sin of anti-christ.

Why Remember?

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Heb 13: 8

Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. Heb 13: 13

THERE NEVER IS A MUSIC TERM CONNECTED WITH THE WORSHIP OF GOD IN ANY DISPENSATION.

Music is frequently identified as the cause or MARK that one will not listen to the words of Christ.

However, the Levitical Overseers (bosses or slave drivers not musicians) had a legalistic role to play only under the king and commanders of the army for the burning of animals sacrificed for sins. Their "worship" meant "slave labor" or "bondage" consistent with the law "given because of transgression."

All common people were "put out" of the camp when the noise and sacrifice began.

Therefore, a RULER worthy of being OBEYED will lead you out of Jerusalem (Babylon, Sodom Rev 11:8) because Christ suffered outside the camp or outside of the city.

The Levitical "musicians" stood in the court and made a great crashing noise during animal sacrifice. They were commanded by the king and commanders of the army for Canaan, Jerusalem, the temple and only for the sacrificial system.

However, we are not come to the sound of trumpets!

For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come. Heb 13: 14

By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips, giving thanks to his name. Heb 13: 15

Because music, sex and perverted sex were "locked at the hip" in ancient paganism, those who are so arrogant and presumptious that they believe they must be the mediator/mediatrix to lead you into God's presence would just as logically presume to be your "love making leader" with your wife. The worship of god is always WE or US or ONE ANOTHER: you cannot do that and God will never, never, never forgive you for trying.

Paul outlawed non-sedentary women because any visible or audible authority is authentia: sexual authority which is both erotic and murderous."

When the "US" is replaced or overpowered by effeminate singing which excites to "fleeing, fighting or sex" proven by the swaying and handclapping (as a show of contempt for Christ and HIS word) then we have abrogated that which Christ died to give to us. Christ refused to sing and dance when the pipers piped.

Therefore, here is how you obey ONLY those who are "gone into all the world" with the gospel in gathering the flock and "doctorinating" and equipping the flock:

But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased Heb 13: 16

Obey them

that have the rule over you,
and submit yourselves:
for they watch for your souls, (oversee means see over)
as they that must give account,
that they may do it with joy,
and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. Heb 13:17

Obey is:

Peitho (g3982) pi'-tho; a prim. verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by anal. to pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflex. or pass. to assent (to evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty): - agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) confident, make friend, obey, persuade, trust, yield.

Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. Ac.13:43

Rule is:

Egeomai (g2233) hayg-eh'-om-ahee; mid. of a (presumed) strengthened form of 71; to lead, i.e. command (with official authority); fig. to deem, i.e. consider: - account, (be) chief, count, esteem, governor, judge, have the rule over, suppose, think.

LET as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. 1 Ti.6:1

However, in the elder sense it most often means "count." Or "account." That is, the teaching elder has the same kind of authority as the shepherd to make sure that not one goes astray.

Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. 1 Tim 5:17

Proistemi (h4291) pro-is'-tay-mee; from 4253 and 2476; to stand before, i.e. (in rank) to preside, or (by impl.) to practise: - maintain, be over, rule.

g2476 means to abide, continue, covenant, hold up, stand by. 5087 means in a passive or upright and active position. Advise.

We noted above that Jesus spoke of ELDERS and RULERS as different. However, the elders have no command authority as did the archons. All old men are "elders" but some older, senior men are natural leaders and are due more respect and support than just old men who can also grow dumber and less mature with age. The ones whom we respect are senior members who consider and account as a father to a son or daughter. They do not become elders by being APPOINTED: you have to grow old. They do not become pastor-teacher by being selected and indeed most elders are not 'self-selected' because of their teaching ability.

Notice that the LABOR or work to the point of exhaustion in WORD and DOCTRINE before they are COUNTED WORTHY OF HONOR.

Therefore, the elder's RULE here means to stand before those needing teaching of the Word. Their RULE in the first clause is teaching the WORD and DOCTRINE in the second. No one has a "program" of mind control or "navigating the winds of change" which will substitute for the Word and Doctrine.

The elders are selected by the established church because they have teaching ability. That is, when they teach the Word people will listen to them. When they defend Christian doctrine they will listen, learn and imitate both his teaching and his lifestyle. If the elder looks back and the people are grumbling or not following then he is not a shepherd but a tyrant.

The elder gets no permanent power when those who picked him to lead refuse to follow him and repudiate his teaching as unscriptural and ungodly.

If the elders do not teach (rule) by teaching the WORD of God which is "spirit" then the elders are sinning: they must be rebuked.

If they are substituting some Hitler-like cult principle to bring all of the members into a binding COVENANT which at Saddleback has five concentric circles which you must jump through to get to be "leadership material." Before that, Hitler would classify you as HUMAN MATERIAL with no right to question God's Anointed.

Paul to Titus:

Mature males must stand over the flock as Shepherd capable of feeding and driving off the wolves. When the shepherds turn this presiding over role to young women or effeminate men they violate Paul's direct command. Silence includes the idea of keeping one's seat or being sedentary:

An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. Tit 1:6

Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless--not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. Tit 1:7

Obeying the doctrine and practices of Madison Church of Christ in Nashville is not God's work. And if he is overbearing by insisting that YOU must get out if you disagree with OUR doctrine and practices then he is overbearing, quick-tempered, drunk on ignorance or more and he is violent.

Dishonest gain is making the "synagogue" into a theater to suck in the seekers in order to pay off the building, and keep the pyramid of ministry power on the dole supported by widows and welfare recipients.

The elder must be the giver!

Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. Tit 1:8

He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message
............as it has been taught,
............ so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine
............ and refute those who oppose it. Tit.1:9

If an elder believes that the elders can make up the DOCTRINE and ESSENTIAL PRACTICES of HIS church then he lacks the fundamental teaching of the first principles. Therefore, by definition he is not qualified to rule others by teaching and guiding. He must be rebuked as Jesus demanded in Matthew.

Christ and His apostles do not define the doctrine and practices of Madison Church of Christ or any other institution. No congregation has God-given authority to define its own teaching. If the elder deviates from the as taught message then he cannot be an elder by God's will.

He can do anything he chooses but when he makes up his own doctrine and practices he ceased to be a Christian in the truest sense.

If an elder turns from synagogue (school) model to theater (Saddleback) model then the elder sins. He is not competent to be an elder: he is not competent to be a Christian.

THIS is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 1Ti.3:1

Literal translation: "If any stretches forward to overseership, of a good work he is desirous." Albert Barnes says:

"The Greek word here is a single word. The word 'episcope'...occurs but four times in the NT. It is translated 'visitation' in Luke 19:44, and in 1 Pet. 2:12; 'bishoprick,' Acts 1:20; and in this place 'office of a bishop.' The verb.. in Heb. 12:15 is rendered 'looking diligently,' and in 1 Pet. 5:2, 'taking the oversight'" (Notes on I Tim. III, p 141).

And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation. Luke 19:44

As an apostle Judas was supposed to be a "visitor." That is, he went out and collected sheep and set them in sheepfolds:

For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and, His bishoprick let another take. Acts 1:20

Judas would lose his "eldership" because he was a "musical agent of Satan." It was prophesied in Psalm 41 that he would lead the triumphant attack upon Jesus to mock him with music.

The Judas Bag was for carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments: it was always attached to a flute case.

The Jews "piped" trying to get Jesus to SING AND DANCE which would make Him their lusted after Messiah really be Dionysus: the new wineskin god.

If the elder turns over that duty to Sister Singers in violation of Paul's direct command then that elder has sinned: rebuke him.

If the elder turns the congregational "speaking" of the Word one to another in singing and making melody in the heart then that elder has sinned: rebuke him.

If the elders "sends across the sea" to find a new method when Moses and Jesus taught the truth, then that elder has sinned: rebuke him.

Paul gave Timothy a way to determine whether an elder was already "laboring to the point of exhaustion in preaching and teaching" or was incompetent.

A competent elder-oxen is out "threshing" the corn. That is, the fields are "white unto harvest" and he is out working as an evangelist. He cannot be a summertime hero. In early church history one was usually considered a Bishop or elder

if they were carrying out the primary evangelistic work. They had regional "authority" in the sense that they taught a large region.

I will bet that no Christian elder ever went into private quarters to decide that their duties was to rule over the Theatrical Performers who had confiscated a church.

There is no role for a "located elder" to be God's designated ruler over buildings and grounds. If he is not a competent teacher he is in no way qualified to be an elder. Therefore, check him out. Timothy was supernaturally equipped and was to set churches in order according to Paul's commands. "Elder" women are also "rulers" in the sense of teaching women. The senior males (not corporate businessmen) ruled by teaching and was therefore due support by the community.

He cannot meet the demands of "bishop" and be business leader of political patron.

The Elders Must be Rebuked when THEY sin:

Remember that the elders are those chosen by the flock and their "votes" are that they want him to be their teacher with the mature judgment to keep the wolves out rather than providing a "theatrical venue" specificially to seek the wolves.

When he disqualifies himself by aligning himself with the Judas Musical Triumph Over Team then he is not following a HOLY spirit.

Remember that there are "generic elders." All older people are elders and are due respect: those who announce that "we are waiting for the old folks to die so we can take over" has no respect for elders or for Christ.

However, there are "elders" who have specific abilities. One who "rules well" is one who "labors in Word and Doctrine."

Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. 1 Tim 5:17

Rule, as we have noted means to "stand before" (not over) to "practice." We noted above that we OBEY only when the elder's TEACHING and CONDUCT are worthy of being followed.

Labor is not attending meetings and deciding to turn the church over to the effeminate. Rather, those already laboring in preaching and teaching are out in the field rounding up sheep.

When the flock is convinced that he is such a laborer then they know that he has A holy spirit or mental disposition.

Then, and only then, does he qualify to be followed in his teachings and life.

Kopiao (g2872) kop-ee-ah'-o; from a der. of 2873; to feel fatigue; by impl. to work hard: - (bestow) labour, toil, be wearied.

I beseech (beg) you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry (diakonia) of the saints,) 1 Cor 16:15

That ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helpeth with us, and laboureth (co-labor). 1 Co.16:16

Paul said "this is the SUCH which you should follow." If an elder is not SUCH as has addicgted themselves to preaching and teaching then Paul would never COMMAND that we owe him loyalty as one with command authority.

If the first six men were "deacons" then we understand that ministry is defined by the fact that two of them are not called "official" deacons but evangelists. They were shepherds out collecting sheep and not stealing sheepfolds.

Again, the "bishop" has an area wide responsibility: it neither begins nor ends in the Elder's Board Room.

He does not RULE OVER several churches but he is a PRIMARY CO-LABORER working in behalf of all believers. His interest is not in building a mega-church and forming a venue for theatrical performance to such members out of area congregations sheepfold. If he does this he is a thief and he must be rebuked.

He is competent only because he teaches only that which has been taught to Him from the Word of God.

This is the way God SETS an elder over a work. He has no command authority to Lord it over the flock.

For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward. 1 Tim 5:18

As we owe obedience only to those who already are LABORING in THE WORD and DOCTRINE, or in finding "sheep" and indoctrinating "sheep," we do OWE honor or OBEDIENCE to those who don't know the word, don't care about the word and have no intention of going out in the community and gathering the flock.

This co-laborer has no call on the loyalty to those who are not loyal to the Word "as it has been taught" and to doctrine or ongoing teaching.

To assume the authority over "buildings and grounds" or whether Paul will be disobeyed and we will import theatrical talent to do our "worshiping for us" is to be presumptious even over Christ Who spoke only what He heard from the Father.

But what if he is, as Paul identified some in Corinth, "super apostles" who do not obey the definition of one owed "honor" but who does not labor to exhaustion in preaching and teaching and wants to permit the tongue speakers (almost always women or strange men) to preside over the flock?

Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. 1 Tim 5:19

Them (elders) that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. 1 Tim 5:20

When hundreds of members rebuke an elder the elder is totally out of step with the Bible and has lost connection with the HEAD when he suggests that "YOU should go find another sheepfold."

Because the supernaturally equipped Timothy was to identify those who were laboring in WORD and DOCTRINE, even so must he be very careful. For instance, "buddy selection" is preferring one person over the other. James says that this makes one guilty of violating the entire Law of Moses:

I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality. 1 Tim 5:21

Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other mens sins: keep thyself pure. 1 Tim 5:22

If the self-selected elder uses Scripture to get his "authority to rule" and refuses to teach the Words of Christ "as it has been taught" then he is a hypocrite and violently uses the Scriptures to beat people into subjection.

As with all CULT uses of Scripture, the PROOF TEXT has a BEFORE TEXT and an AFTER TEXT. These added proofs totally repudiate what the elders are attempting to force over Madison as necessary for all CHARISMATIC Control to exist.

We will see Next that the MARK 12 "proof text" for tyrannically eradicating all who do not LOVE in the sense of not daring to DIALOG as Christ endured, Paul endured and Paul commanded even for those who CLAIM THAT THEY ARE INSPIRED BY BEING ELDERS BY GOD'S DIRECT WILL.

Dan Dozier identifies how this worship PERFORMS at Woodmont Hills Family of God. Apparently those navigating the winds of change claim to be "selected and trained by the sovereign grace of God." The natural result is that they are worshiped as "celestial beings" but the audience cannot hear the message in the midst of the Charismata of Personality.

And see how Jack Reese is facilitator at a "christian" college.

Some of the ways to identify a cultic movement may be found here.

See Dancing on the Rim by Lynn Anderson

Kenneth Sublett: specific comments welcomed.

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