Volkish -
Völkish - Völkism - Reincarnation
We will make comparison between ancient and modern country-wide or world-wide religious groups. The goal is not to pronounce guilt but to show the roots of Dominion Theology.
Break down the walls, tear down old institutions, burn the old buildings and rebuild on the ashes of humanity. This has been the cry.
However, none of the lazy, complacent want to hear that the boat is sinking until their neck gets wet. Having a close association with efforts to control the church and exclude those who threaten on psychological grounds to become a brake on the further dissemination of the idea (Hitler), has a chilling wake-up message.
Even sincere people who lust for power borrow proof-texts from men like Machievelli or Hitler and reincarnate it into their own world-wide revival. Therefore, while we cannot judge the motives of people, we tend to suspect any religious ambition larger than the local congregation or the mission field. When elements of change agents or control agents begin to rise we have the right to dig out some old facts to warn the "masses accumulated by propaganda" that they may just be "Human Material" out of which the one, key-man leader builds his own new world order. See the New Blood or Racial purity of latter rain.
We all have to wonder what we would do if our name was Bonhoffer because history repeats itself and political revolutions have often used the "church" whose members are soft and cowards (re Hitler).
We will quote Hitler to show that there are only two classes in any effort to destroy the old world order and build a new world order: the masses who are just supporters without knowing about the goals, and the few, key leaders under the unquestioning leader of the one dictator.
Richard Wagner was the unofficial court composer of the Third Reich. Adolf Hitler said that "Whoever wants to understand National Socialistic Germany must know Wagner." Hitler's appropriation of the Bayreuth Wagner Festival was to serve his own cultural propaganda purposes. Wagner was a cultural hero for Hitler and his Nazis.
The strains of Wagner were played during the Nazis' book-burning ceremonies and when concentration camp prisoners were about to be put to death. Nazi Germany's main defense fortification was called the "Siegfried Line," after the mythic hero in Wagner's Ring of the Nibelung.
In The Organ in Reformed Worship Part Two:
"As absurd as this may seem to us today, it was nevertheless a common belief in Protestant churches a hundred years ago that
the organist was divinely inspired to lead and guide the congregation through the aesthetic worship experience into the presence of God, and that his feelings and taste were superior to those of the congregation.When the American Guild of Organists was established in 1896, their declared object was not to improve standards of playing and professional conduct, but to impress upon their members that organists had a divine function to perform.
In The Organ in Reformed Worship Part One:
"The marriage of Queen Victoria to Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg gave the royal seal of approval to all things Germanic, and this showed in their patronage of musicians such as Mendelssohn and, later, Wagner. Presbyterians, particularly Scots Presbyterians, were highly intellectual in their approach to Christianity, and because English universities such as Oxford and Cambridge required students to subscribe to
"Anglican beliefs, they sent their sons to Germany to study at the great Universities there, where they picked up the latest ideas in philosophy and theology, particularly the new rationalistic techniques of Bible study known as "higher criticism" and brought them back home and on to the colonies.
The single most important way in which the hinduistic ideas of the German transcendentalists came to influence Protestant church worship, was through the provision of a model on which the new cultural forms could be constructed.
This was the gesamtkunstwerk, or total art work, in which various art forms are synthesised into a new, supposedly higher art form. This concept was brought to its peak in the work of Richard Wagner, whose musikdrama was a synthesis of literature, stage production, set design, the architecture of his own theatre, and symphonic and vocal music, all subordinated to his own will. Wagner came to this point after reading the philosophy of Artur Schopenhauer, a student of eastern transcendentalism and nihilism, particularly his The World as Will and Idea, and a comparison of the two men leaves no doubt that the work of one was firmly based on the other. By the end of the nineteenth century, Schopenhauer and Wagner were required reading and listening for every trendy young person.
We could not help note that the accounts of the Stand in the Gap imitation of the Muslim mass meeting trying to make "real men" break down using the same two groups: the Volkish revival of an ancient sense of destiny by the one and the "persons":
Pentecostal Churches.
"Pentecostals and charismatics were heavily involved in the largest religious gathering in the history of the United States on Oct. 4, 1997, when as many as 1.5 million Christian men, who belonged to the organization Promise Keepers, gathered on the Mall in Washington, D.C.
"Leaders from the charismatic tradition, such as Promise Keepers founder Bill McCartney and pastors Jack Hayford and Joseph Garlington, were prominent on the platform. Other groups also served as host for large gatherings.
"A week earlier the world conference of the Assemblies of God reported that more than one million persons had attended the conference's final rally in São Paulo, Braz. Britannica Members, 1997 update
Whatever the intentions, sooner or later any volkish religious organization larger than the local congregation will acquire a leader whose absolute power corrupts absolutely. Furthermore, any collection or projection of power such as a million men Standing in the Face of the national government; and a millenium plan to Stand in the Face of all state governments must lead to the conclusion that rather than turning effeminate men into "Christs" in their own home or church, the goal is national power along with other political-religious groups which have run their course and discredited true conservatives.
Before looking at the revival of a new Völkish group we quote from one "Early Warning System" which knew that there was danger when their feet began to get wet:
IS PROMISE KEEPERS AND THE MANIFEST SONS OF GOD A NEO-NAZI CULT?
Promise Keepers: A Militant Unity?
by Ed Tarkowski and Sarah Leslie"Promise Keepers, a rapidly growing ecumenical men's movement, may be the best tool for those holding the Manifest Sons of God doctrines to market their beliefs to the rest of the American church. These beliefs, which are foundational to the Laughing Phenomenon associated with Rodney Howard-Browne, are now entering mainstream churches of all denominations via Promise Keepers. The
Manifest Sons of God believe that Christ cannot incarnate in a divided body;
therefore, it's crucial that the Church be united. Another term for this is "Joel's Army". Promise Keepers has been likened to this army. An article in Jewel van der Merwe's Discernment newsletter states:
In a recent interview in response to a question as to whether the Promise Keepers could be fulfilling the prophecy in Joel of raising an army, [Pastor] James Ryle answered, "Yes...300,000 men have come together so far this year under Promise Keepers... Never in history have 300,000 men come together except to go to war. These men are gathered for War."
See how the false leaders attacked Jesus by STANDING IN THE GAP to drive Him into panic with "musical instruments and making a joyful noise before the Lord" in order to defeat Him as they treated Him like Beliar.
According to the O Timothy newsletter, "Promise Keepers is a men's movement started.. by members of John Wimber's Vineyard Fellowship." Ryle, who has ministered with John Wimber and Paul Cain, is pastor of the Boulder Valley Vineyard and, in association with Boulder member Bill McCartney, founded Promise Keepers in 1990. Ryle is presently a member of the Board of Directors of Promise Keepers, a `non-denominational,' parachurch organization [whose stated goal] is to celebrate biblical manhood and motivate men toward Christlike masculinity." Vineyard head John Wimber has given his wholehearted approval to the Laughing Phenomenon.
Ryle isn't the only one to promise endtime warriors. During a Pastors' Meeting at the Airport Vineyard in Toronto, where the Laughing Phenomenon is ongoing, Rev. John Arnott said:
"And so now we're starting to see people prophetically acting like lions and oxen and eagles and even warriors... it's a wonderful thing and we've seen it spontaneous... We had all four of those manifestations happening at the same time. So what did the man look like? He looked like a warrior, just yelling Ahhhhh!!!! ....[It] just may be the Holy Spirit putting an empowering, like a warrior, on them."
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[Our Note] "Many groups led by
men whom God has deprived of spiritual eyes and ears have
lost faith in the methods of Christ revealed in
Scripture one
of the "human material" supporters notes that:
"Atlanta changed my life! There, I've said it, OK? To be a part of the world's largest-ever collection of clergy (42,000) in one building at one time; to hear the thunderous, ear-splitting applause, the four-part harmony, and that eerie, haunting, inspiring chant of "Je-e-e-s-u-s" as this hand-holding, mid-sized city of men affirmed their common faith-what can one say? It will never be forgotten. "The highlight for me had to be somewhere around the time of Steve Green's emotional presentation of "Let the Walls Come Down," leaving thousands of male pastors of every race and denomination tearfully hugging while offering and receiving apologies for centuries of injustice and blindness to each other's plight. Hats off to Coach Bill McCartney and the team for bringing vision to fruition as they launched the much-needed Promise Keepers' theme for 1996, "Break Down the Walls." "Sports Motif: Oh, some things were missing-the beer, the cigarettes (for the most part) and the gutter language. But the similarities to professional football were all too noticeable-the incredible hype, the "wave," the close-to-hypnotic chanting for your team (now here's a difference-everyone cheered for the same team!), the frenzied buying of souvenirs, the loud singing on the go-train after. After all, a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do, right?
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"Promise Keepers has incorporated key doctrines of the Manifest Sons of God into their material. The February 1995 issue of Suitable Helpers, a newsletter for women participating in Promise Keepers expresses that believers can become Christ Incarnate:"Our Lord is calling out a great host of men ready and willing to become `Christs' in their homes: Promise Keepers. In grand, bold sweeps, God has mustered an army."
Noticing the potential political nature of this men's movement is none other than The New Age Journal, which ran an article favorable to Promise Keepers in its April 1995 edition. Writer Jeff Wagenheim noted the odd combination of
New Age men's movement ideology (Robert Bly's pantheism)
combined with the political evangelicalism of Pat Robertson:The Volkish Faith
"...despite the group's assertions to the contrary, Promise Keepers is an organization with vast political influence. The fact that hundreds of thousands of men are being actively encouraged to adhere to a highly conservative set of values and to work to instill those values in their communities and nation should not just be a matter of theological interest."An historical precedent for a military-style political/religious movement such as Promise Keepers can be found in Germany during the 30's. According to author Richard Terrell in his provocative book, Resurrecting the Third Reich (Huntington House, 1994),
orthodox Christianity was supplanted by the German Völkish faith:"Nazism arrived with the full trappings of a full-blown religion. Nazi rallies were
"What was to take possession of the German consciousness was a militant romanticism... According to this way of thinking,the Divine Spirit is manifested in the spirit of a people,
in their collective genius and total culture or Völkgeist...
Germany developed a kind of communal mysticism which contained its own Teutonic concept of a chosen people, called to redeem civilization from its decadence."
glorious pageants that stirred the emotions, which, according to Schleiermacher,
were the very well-springs of spiritual truth.
The faith to which Hitler called the German people
depended not on any revelation of Scripture, but on pure feeling."The Nazi mixture of flags, rich and heroic music (especially that of the fanatically anti-Semitic genius Richard Wagner),
and the message of national destiny had the effect of religious festivals.See the Lust for Spectacle Worship quite identical to witchcraft.
Lynn Anderson: See Dancing on the Rim
And his discipling movement based on Promise Keepers SHEPHERDING. This is the old crossroads mind-control cut
"Even today, still photographs of these meetings have a powerful and gripping presence, and one can imagine the great impact that such a piece of cinematic propaganda as Triumph of the Will must have had through its showings in German theaters (see chapter 5).
"Terrel describes the purpose of his book: "Resurrecting the Third Reich" clarifies the spiritual roots of the Nazi movement and explores important implications of the experience of the Third Reich for Christianity. This book is a direct challenge to the assertion that Christianity "caused" the Holocaust, and that the New Testament itself is "antisemitic." The book contains numerous biographical capsules concerning Christians who challenged and resisted Nazism out of Christian conviction. Also explored is the relationship of Nazism to occult movements and racial mythologies. The final chapter explores significant cultural parallels between National Socialist Germany and contemporary realities in the United States.
Terrell describes the advent of this full-blown religion:
"The Völkish concept of the social organism (ministeries) was effectively symbolised in mass meetings that expressed a sense of eternity, awe, and mystery, effects stimulated by a "cathedral of light" nighttime mass meetings in which antiaircraft lights sent brilliant shafts of illumination into the darkened sky. In his speeches,
Hitler would frequently characterize his career in politics as a divine calling led by God
and insisted that nazism was more than just a social movement.
It was a total worldview, a spirituality, supported by an energetic use of
traditional religious words that had, however,
become detached from their orthodox, historic meanings. His references to a "thousand year Reich" carried the ring of the biblical millennium."
"THE folkish state, a general picture of which I have attempted to draw in broad outlines, will not be realized by the mere knowledge of what is necessary to this state. It is not enough to know how a folkish state should look. Far more important is the program for its creation.We may not expect the present parties, which after all are primarily beneficiaries of the present state,
to arrive of their own accord at a change of orientation and of their own free will to modify their present attitude. Hitler, Mein Kampf
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"It must pick out certain ideas from its general world picture and clad them in a form which, in its precise, slogan-like brevity, seems suited to serve as a creed for a new community of men.While the program of a solely political party is the formula for a healthy outcome of the next elections,
the program of a philosophy is the formulation of a declaration of war against the existing order against a definite state of affairs; in short, against an existing view of life in general.
[success] lies in the nature of an organization that it can only exist
if a broad mass, with a more emotional attitude, [human material]
serves a high intellectual leadership.
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In EcoFascists: Lessons from the German Experience under:
Groups such as Promise Keepers and the militant "religious" groups are founded on the thesis that the old order is "decadent and deliterious" and needs some one to revive the totality of Christendom. If that sounds grandiose it does not sound new. Everyone has a new "wineskin" to sell.
"Eichberg regards Judeo-Christianity as the ultimate root of all present evils,
since it is overly intellectual and alienates humanity both from itself and from the divine;
it neglects the emotions and the body.
Tied in as it is with the logic of productivism, Christianity, Eichberg writes, is the "religion of growth" that must be fought at all costs.
To help cultivate 'national identity,' he proposes instead a new religion
that mixes together neopagan Germanic, Celtic, and Indian religions with old völkisch-nationalistic ideas.
It is to be based on "the sensuality-physicality of dance and ritual, ceremony and taboo, meditation, prayer, and ecstasy.
In essence, [this religion] constitutes itself as a form of praxis" against the "religion of growth"
Since its "sensuous counter-experiences" can restore humanity to closer contact with nature. Sounding like many New Agers in the United States, Eichberg calls for a return to pristine nature (This is the Jubilee theme of the Pope), to the alleged primordial sources of people's lives, psyches, and authentic cultures, and for people to heal themselves within as part of healing the ecological crisis, overcoming their own alienation, and rediscovering themselves.
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"Primitive religion is not believed, it is
danced." "The word must be
discovered in
the flesh." "If the church fails to develop a
visceral theology and fails to help modern man rediscover his flesh and his feelings it will neglect a common
source of grace as well as the seed from which compassion
grows."
With all phychologically-driven change devices, the goal is to know self and even worship self or a charismatic figure "used" in the idolatry of talent:
However, of this pagan revival it is noted that:
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Even after Bismarck's unification of Germany in 1871, many felt that the resulting polity did not adequately express the nature of the German people, and hence Volkism tended toward ever more extreme forms.
"Volkism might be termed a romantic nationalism, based upon a mystical identification of the people with some universal concept. Mosse describes a
`union of a group of people with a transcendental `essence'. This `essence' might be called `nature' or `cosmos' or `mythos',
but in each instance it was fused to man's innermost nature, and
represented the source of his creativity, his depth of feeling, his individuality, and
his unity with other members of the Volk.'' (p. 4)
"Several corollaries follow from this: for instance, it was typical of Volkish thinkers to link the people with their landscape, in particular Germans with Germany; the characteristics of the environment (i.e. misty forests) were held to have infused the Germans with a special depth of soul.
Jews (Read "traditional Christians" or Jews), by contrast, were held to have shallow, arid, legalistic characters, due to their origin in the desert landscapes of the Mideast.
Indeed, for many Volkists, this `legalism'' had infected Christianity to the detriment of the Germans, and many writers called for a
Germanic Christianity'' or even a return to paganism and Wotan-worship in order to revive the true German spirit.
"Another important consequence was
the individual person achieved his true being
only insofar as he or she was a member of the Volk.\"By contrast, the individualism more familiar to Western Europe was one
in which any person might transcend the group or society and reach the heights on his own; the clash between the individual and society is a familiar literary theme.
"Hence the political thinking of Volkists was in general
anti-liberal and anti-democratic:
the ideal society was a hierarchical one in which all members took their place in the social organism.Many writers looked back to the Middle Ages or the pre-Roman Teutonic tribes as presumed examples of such a society and called for a return to the Estates of old. In general Volkism was an anti-modern movement, and may be looked upon as a reaction to the rapid industrialization and social turbulence that overtook Germany in the latter half of the nineteenth century, as it rose to the status of an industrial power.
The last chapter ``Toward National Socialism'' describes some of the political interactions that led to the Nazi takeover in 1933. By no means were all Volkists proto-nazi;
the Youth Movement was anti-nazi and was supressed after 1933, and many Volkists were explicitly apolitical;
however, the character of their apoliticism was such as to aid Hitler's seizure of power. Mosse reviewed
"Is Promise Keepers creating a new "folk" religion? The large mass rallies, the exaltation of emotion over reason, the lack of doctrinal integrity, the taking of oaths (the 7 promises), the focus on fatherland and fatherhood, and the ecumenical inclusion of aberrant esoteric doctrines bears a disconcerting similarity to an era which gave rise to one of the most dreadful armies in history. The infiltration of Manifest Sons of God doctrines into Promise Keepers (via Vineyard) combined with New Age ideologies (via Robert Bly and Robert Hicks) appears to create a new American folk theology:pantheism, the idolatry of self,
the belief in a divine mandate to take the land,
the superiority of a group, a divine millennium, and the necessity of group hysteria."While many in the church are jumping wholeheartedly into the Laughing Phenomenon and Promise Keepers, it behooves the rest of the Church to take a sober, steady look at the historical, theological and philosophical underpinnings of these popular movements of our times."
Rubel Shelly leading the Jubilee restoration quotes Nicolo Machiavelli to explain that resistance to change agents was not new. One can suppose that opposition cannot be sincere and must therefore prove through "church growth" that the proposed changes were divinely inspired. Sometimes the opponents of change are correct! The "rest of the story" of resistance to change was Machiavelli's demand that you must join, collaborate or be exterminated.
However, many revivalistic agents of change grasp slogans without understanding that Machiavelli's methods were identical to those of Hitler. In one chapter Machiavelli, in the Prince, notes that:
"It was necessary that Romulus should not remain in Alba, and that he should be abandoned at his birth, in order that he should become King of Rome and founder of the fatherland.
While breaking down the walls or calling up old legal slogans by uniting all groups so that you have "unity in diversity" Hitler notes that this never lasts very long:
Hitler observed that "For the usual average citizen it is equally pleasant and comforting to hear
that such associations,
by combining in such a 'working federation,' have discovered a 'common bond
and 'set aside all dividing factors.'
However, he notes that this is not the true fact: the one person with the clear vision leads all of the diverse groups by forcing them to follow his new doctrines even if the other aspiring associates or complimentarians believe that membership means leadership:
"Thus, it may be that centuries, dissatisfied with the form of their religious life,
yearn for a renewal,
and that from this psychic urge dozens and more men arise who on the basis of their insight and their knowledgebelieve themselves chosen to solve this religious distress,
to manifest themselves as prophets of a new doctrine,
or at least as warriors against an existing one.
However, Hitler calls the masses who will go out to seek revival or a new world order "human material" out of which the leader who is "chosen by God" selects the few.
"Here, too, assuredly, by virtue of a natural order, the strongest man is destined to fulfill the great mission;
yet the realization that this one is the exclusively elect usually comes to the others very late.
On the contrary, they all see themselves as chosen and having equal rights for the solution of the task,
and their fellow men are usually able least of all to distinguish which among them - being solely endowed with the highest ability - deserves their sole support.
"No, the natural development, though after a struggle enduring centuries, finally brought the best man to the place where he belonged.
"This will always be so and will eternally remain so, as it always has been so.
"Therefore, it must not be lamented if so many men set out on the road to arrive at the same goal:
the most powerful and swiftest will in this way be recognized, and will be the victor.
"For is it not a tremendous gall to aspire to write on their own banner the task that another has written on his,
"to borrow his programmatical principles, and then, as though he had created all this, to go his own ways?
"And the gall is especially manifested in the fact that the same elements who have caused the split by founding their new movements
"do the most talking as experience shows, about the need of unification and unity
as soon as they think they have observed that the opponent has too much of a headstart to be overtaken.
"And thus the folkish state above all will never be created by the compromising will of a folkish working federation,
but solely by the iron will of a single movement that has fought its way to the top against all.
Hitler warns that "When a movement harbors the purpose of tearing down a world and building another in its place (The Jubilee Movement), complete clarity must reign in the ranks of its own leadership with regard to the following principles:
"Every movement will first have to sift the human material it wins into two large groups: supporters (Complimentarians) and members (Assimilated):.
The function of propaganda is to attract supporters,the function of organization to win members.A supporter of a movement is one who declares himself to be in agreement with its aims,a member is one who fights for them.The supporter is made amenable to the movement by propaganda.The member is induced by the organization to participate personally in the recruiting of new supporters, from whom in turn members can be developed.Since being a supporter requires only a passive recognition of an idea,while membership demands active advocacy and defense, to ten supporters there will at most be one or two members.Being a supporter is rooted only in understanding,membership is the courage personally to advocate and disseminate what has been understood.Understanding in its passive form corresponds to the majority of mankind which is lazy and cowardly.Membership requires an activistic frame of mind and thus corresponds only to the minority of men.Propaganda will consequently have to see that an idea wins supporters,while the organization must take the greatest care only to make the most valuable elements among the supporters into members.Propaganda does not, therefore, need to rack its brains with regard to the importance of every individual instructed by it, with regard to his agility, capacity, and understanding, or character,while the organization must carefully gather from the mass of these elements those which really make possible the victory of the movement.Propaganda tries to force a doctrine on the whole people;the organization embraces within its scope only those who do not threaten on psychological grounds to become a brake on the further dissemination of the idea.Propaganda works on the general public from the standpoint of an idea and makes them ripe for the victory of this idea,while the organization achieves victory by the persistent, organic, and militant union of those supporters who seem willing and able to carry on the fight for victory.The victory of an idea will be possible the sooner, the more comprehensively propaganda has prepared people as a wholeand the more exclusive, rigid, and firm the organization which carries out the fight in practice.From this it results that the number of supporters cannot be too large,out that the number of members can more readily be too large than too small.If propaganda has imbued a whole people with an idea,the organization can draw the consequences with a handful of men.To see how this is used in the Purpose Driven Cult where the goal is to infiltrate and divert.
You can be totally assured in view of all earlier models that any attempt to "weld" all denominations into a militant unity with a unified command reading from the same page, does not mean that the new organization will be the democratic utopia the "human material" thought that it would be. To the contrary, the masses such as 40,000 "clergy" at one mass meeting of Promise Keepers in Atlanta were being.
While each of the 40,000 idle clergy was led to believe that he personally had been selected to become a leader in the new reich, Hitler would tell them that if they have succumbed to the mass hysteria they are part of the usable and dispossable "human material" but they cannot be the intellectual leaders. The mass hysteria proves without a doubt that there is just a single person who sees himself as the "Father" of the new blood line:
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When people appeal to Machiavelli to define why CHANGE is slow they are also using the methods of Le Bon and the Hitler and then Hegel. There exists, of course, and especially for every movement that is still weak, a great temptation, in moments when a more powerful enemy has succeeded in
I have several times experienced such cases, in which supreme energy was necessary
But the community of the great demonstration not only strengthens the individual, it also unites and helps to create an esprit de corps. The man who is exposed to grave tribulations, as the first advocate of a new doctrine in his factory or workshop,
And he obtains an impression of this body for the first time in the mass demonstration. When from his little workshop or big factory, in which he feels very small,
when the visible success and agreement of thousands confirm to him the rightness of the new doctrine and for the first time arouse doubt in the truth of his previous conviction -
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Here is an old Woodcut Showing Jews worshiping the Starry Host.
Part of that host is the Sophia-Zoe character who is the superior partner to the junior jehovahs and the Word.
The result of this being cut free from God was the temple animal sacrifices from which Rubel Shelly and other gleefully extract their proof-text. They are, in effect, trying to force the people into the worship of the starry host which always had human agents as STARS: Lucifer, the harp-playing prostitute in Tyre, Lucifer the king/queen of Babylon who went to hell on a bed of maggots along which her harps and harpists, and the end-time Babylonian whore who will also be destroyed along with her musicians (Rev. 18).
This is always a symptom of literal and spiritual bloodshed because for the last few years men havs systematically kicked God's foundation out from under society.
Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them Is.5:11And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts (religious festivals Am 5:21; 8:10) : but they regard not the work of the Lord, neither consider the operation of his hands. Is.5:12
For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. Ro 10:5
But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into Nashville? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) Ro 10:6
Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) Ro 10:7
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; Ro 10:8
Wait! Just had another insight not possible when the music sounds. It seems that the priests and prophets of Oklahoma are out of their places as Watchmen because the new wineskin affect image calls from afar. Remember that the wine does not have to be literal to be a magical affect image. This image can even get a spirit "poured on you":
"But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. Is.28:7
Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger (wander to and fro), but not with strong drink. Is 29:9
For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. Is 29:10
Our goal is to point out that no group larger than the local congregation has any Biblical authority. While groups may join together for a common goal, the danger of coming under a discipling organization which projects its leadership into your congregation is that the goals which you bought into to replace your local shepherds (elders) may have larger goals. No group is guilty by association but the use of evil means to accomplish "good" ends should sound an alarm -- you don't have to wait for the outcome; you can control your local congregation and remain at home to do the work God has assigned you.
Counter added 3.27.05 2:18 6000 6.05.07 8.28.08