Max Lucado: The Thief on the Cross
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The thief on the cross died for his own sins: he did not ask to be saved before the Cross and Jesus didn't promise him salvation. However, it is common in writing fiction to make a false understand TRUMP all of the Bible and historical evidence making baptism REQUIRED before Jesus will add you to His Body of disciples.
And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. Luke 23:33
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. Luke 23:34
And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God. Luke 23:35
Notice
that the malfactors are
still malfactors: crucified for their own sins.
........
The
executioners were forgiven because
they were ignorant.
........
........
But,
if you follow Lucado's
logic, Jesus WASN'T saved!
Zwingli claimed that in 1525 HE was the inventor of the dogma of Faith Only. He declared that all of the doctors until his time were simply wrong. Therefore, the Baptist baptism does not rest on Jesus Christ but upon Zwingli. Click for information of the faith only baptism. SEE THE GOSPEL MAX LUCADO MOCKS.
Part One The Thief on the Cross
Part Two: Baptism is just a pledge that you have been saved?
Salvation by Trust Only or Prayer Only? 12/5/02 See how the GA, Shelly, Lucado Trithism as A Family of Gods leads naturally to despising the counsel of the human Jesus and how Baptists Baptism denies that Christ came FULLY in the flesh.
Therefore, dogmatists have trouble with this exception to the rule. However, the facts must be understood by the rule and if one sees an exception then there is no rule. This is why Max wants to use the thief on the cross to validate his salvation by prayer only. This is a review of Max Lucado's statement of faith about baptism at Oak Hills Church of Christ.
Review of: Baptism: The Demonstration of Devotion
Max Lucado: The Purpose of A Teaching Position
This study is based on a sermon preached by Max Lucado on Nov. 12,1995, and again on Feb. 2, 1997. This paper has been revised, edited and prayed about by the elders and ministerial staff. A cassette of the original sermon can be ordered from UPWORDS MINISTRIES, (210) 561-9673.
These views are identical to Baptist's views and his baptism is Believer's Baptism which is a form of ancient pagan baptism. See how Max Lucado at Jubilee 97 preached a form of baptism which was clearly at odds with the churches of Christ. Because of this lecture, many churches turned away from Jubilee. Max Lucado - Water Washed Away at Jubilee 97
At Oak Hills: God doesn't require it but Max does:
Max Lucado: 1. Those who have never been baptized. This study will help you see the importance of baptism. If you have never been baptized in any form,
you will need to "demonstrate your devotion" by baptism
in order to be a member at Oak Hills.Members serving in instructional capacities (such as Bible class teachers, small group leaders, ministry leaders, elders and staff ministers) need to be in agreement and compliance with the teaching position.
This means that unless you accept the essentially Baptist (pagan) position on baptism you will never be able to teach the truth in a public sense: you must be IN COMPLIANCE with Max Lucado. For now we will just look at the thief of the cross. Since the thief may have had the gospel preached to him in paradise and was not saved by PRAYER ONLY on the cross, this will naturally lead to 1 Peter 3:21 which agrees with all other passages on baptism that BAPTISM SAVES because Christ put the creative power in the water in the beginning and water is His means for granting salvation or the remission of sins.
The Thief, like James and John wanted to be part of the ministerial staff which, in the Purpose Driven cults and Promise "keepers" are, according to Rubel Shelly, THE LEADERS, while the elders are shepherds of the STAFF INFECTION. He didn't ask for his sins to be remitted or to be saved or to be converted or to be born LIKE a little child of water to receive A new, holy spirit.
Max Lucado: Once a person admits his sin and turns to Christ for salvation,
some step must be taken to proclaim to heaven and earth that he is a follower of Christ. Baptism is that step.
Baptism is the initial and immediate step of obedience by one who has declared his faith to others.
So important was this step that, as far as we know, every single convert in the New Testament was baptized.
With the exception of the thief on the cross, there is no example of an unbaptized believer.
The thief on the cross believed, like the apostles, that Christ would set up an EARTHLY KINGDOM. Therefore, the thief did not believe that Jesus was God Incarnate and had no evidence to suspect that His kingdom was to be in the human heart and not earthly. He did not know anything about the meaning of the gospel as Jesus Christ fulfilling God's purpose to save the souls. Baptism is into discipleship to Jesus among the living. Jesus commanded baptism as part of making a disciple to Himself as the master teacher.
Since the thief on the cross was placed by Jesus in the position of all of the DEAD who would get a chance to hear the gospel, he is NOT an exception to anything.
Max Lucado: The thief on the cross, however, is a crucial exception. His conversion drives dogmatists crazy.
It also drives crazy people dogmatic. Max Lucado is willing to be deceived to find one exception and on that repudiates the Bible as it has been taught until Zwingli and TEACH as DOGMAN, CREED and a new PATTERNISM that you (who didn't die on a cross for your own sins) should REPUDIATE the direct command of Jesus held sacred until MAX LUCADO.
That he was CONVERTED is just postmodern replacement for the "obsolete" Bible. There is no evidence that the thief was converted. That he believed that Jesus was special and that he understood that Jesus was going to BUILT A KINGDOM he wanted to be remembered.
Then came to him the mother of Zebedees children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him. Matt 20:20
And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. Matt 20:21
But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. Matt 20:22
And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. Luke 23:39
But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? Luke 23:40
And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. Luke 23:41
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. Luke 23:42
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Luke 23:43
The thief on the cross was a thief. He confessed that he was a thief. He did not know what he was asking.
Jesus promised that he would be in paradise or a park- like place that was pleasant.
The thief on the cross WAS crucified: He WAS baptized with suffering and death. He died for HIS OWN SINS although that could not redeem him.
Baptism is a FORM of that baptism of suffering and death. The "form" means anti-type or INSTEAD dying on the cross like the thief on the cross.
Anyone who claims the role of the THIEF ON THE CROSS and follows Max:
"The thief on the cross, however, is a crucial exception. His conversion drives dogmatists crazy"---
---Should present themselves to the nearest barn to be nailed for HIS OWN SINS not under OUR ROCK but under the SEE ROCK CITY sign. By offering "grace" to those who deliberately disobey the direct commandment of Christ, he deprives himself of grace.
People who deny what the Bible so clearly teaches about Hell as a place of punishment for the consious deceased, try to pull the wool over the eyes of Jesus by doing what no version does: that is to replace the comma like this:
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise. Luke 23:43
First, this leaves the second clause making no sense: "shalt be..."
Secondly, it would have bordered on madness for Jesus to tell the thief that he was speaking to him TODAY. I am sure that the thief knew that.
The word conversion is ONLY associated with baptism:
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38
Souls are NOW added to Christ's Spiritual Kingdom CALLED OUT of the world to be a kingdom of kings and priests: that never happens by calling God "Father" or agreeing that God created. To what were those who BELIEVETH NOT by rejecting BAPTISM added. The word Jesus used means that they belong to Satan's team: spiritists.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. Ac.2:41
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, THAT your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; Ac.3:19
And there isn't a clue that the thief on the cross was CONVERTED in the Christian sense and indeed how could he have been?
Max Lucado: It is no accident that the first one to accept the invitation of the crucified Christ has no creed, confirmation, christening, or catechism.
Jesus didn't INVITE him to ANYTHING. However, Postmodernism says that WE "partner" with God and write our OWN new Scripture because Christ the Spirit COULD NOT preserve His Word. That is where Max got that false teaching.
Christ has not finished the CRUCIFIXION process! He was still alive, had not shed His blood, had not been witnessed as part of the PATTERN gospel, had not ascended into the heavens (another dimension) and had not returned as spirit to witness and empower the Apostles. The gospel HAD NOT BEEN preached with the added dimension that God will give us a NEW BIRTH, regenerate our spirits, give us A holy spirit which the same Peter says is A clear conscience or consiousness. That means that those who minimize the WORDS of Christ as "Spirit and Life" (John 6:63) have NOT TURNED TO CHRIST and are still BLIND and cannot grasp the Words of God spoken to mankind (2 Cor. 3). The VEIL is still there and they CANNOT hear Jesus in His Word.
Only Jesus Christ could fulfil the DOCTRINE prophesied by Malachi. Paul said that thePROTO or PATTERN Godpel related to what CHRIST DID AS GOD. However, Mark then says that the Baptism is the prophesied WASHING as the ARCHE of FORM of that doctrine which any BELIEVETH must obey or be damned. A BELIEVETH NOT is defined as one who does not obey because he is a TRAITOR belonging to Satan.
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"BELIEVETH NOT" means that they disobeyed by rejecting baptism.
Apisteo (g569) means to be unbelieving, meaning to disobey
Apistos (g571) disbelieving, i.e. without Christian faith, a heathen, untrustworthy (person), faithless, infidel.
Teaching any of these "little ones" to deliberately minimize baptism will, according to Paul in Ephesians 2, REFUSE to glorify Christ as the ARCHE or First Principle of the Gospel which IS the teaching of Jesus Christ and is therefore CHRIST'S DOCTRINE AND CHRIST'S CREED. Another part of Christ's Creed was to fire hirelings who become SUGGEST to the Elders and have HIS OWN PRAYERS or COMMANDS answeredd by elders who may be as "apt to chase a coon as apt to teach the Word as it has been taught."
Last time we checked, this occurred BEFORE the Christ was crucified. Therefore, He had not suffered for sins and did not offer the thief remission of sins.
Tertullian wrote about baptism: b. c. 155, /160, d. after 220
But none either pardons sins or freely grants the Spirit save God only. Even the Lord Himself said that the Spirit would not descend on any other condition, but that He should first ascend to the Father.
What the Lord was not yet conferring, of course the servant could not furnish. Accordingly, in the Acts of the Apostles, we find that men who had "John's baptism" had not received the Holy Spirit, whom they knew not even by hearing. That, then, was no celestial thing which furnished no celestial (endowments): whereas the very thing which was celestial in John-
the Spirit of prophecy-so completely failed, after the transfer of the whole Spirit to the Lord, that he presently sent to inquire whether He whom he had himself preached, whom he had pointed out when coming to him, were "HE."
And so "the baptism of repentance" was dealt with as if it were a candidate for the remission and sanctification shortly about to follow in Christ: for in that John used to preach "baptism for the remission of sins," the declaration was made with reference to future remission;
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. Acts 19:4
But he who "prepares" does not himself "perfect," but procures for another to perfect. John himself professes that the celestial things are not his, but Christ's, by saying, "He who is from the earth speaketh concerning the earth; He who comes from the realms above is above all; " and again, by saying that he "baptized in repentance only, but that One would shortly come who would baptize in the Spirit and fire; "
of course because true and stable faith is baptized with water, unto salvation;
pretended and weak faith is baptized with fire, unto judgment.
Jesus did not offer him an invitation to the salvation envisioned in baptism. Therefore, the thief did not accept the invitation he DID NOT RECEIVE. When you fictionalize the Word of a Holy God your eyes get fogged up with the haze.
The First Probability:
Now, hear the conversation between TWO THIEVES first:
And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed (blasphemeo) on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. Luke 23:39
The other knew that he was blaspheming GOD just by asking IF thou be CHRIST. Christ was Full Deity who laid aside His full Glory and Majesty to come to earth FULLY in the FLESH. The thief had heard about the kingdom and believed that Christ was God:
But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? Luke 23:40
And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. Luke 23:41
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. Luke 23:42
He did not request salvation: The thief may have received John's Baptism. He seemed to know more about Jesus Who, through the apostles, had been baptizing disciples for the remission of sins.
WHEN therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, John 4:1
(Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,) John 4:2
He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee. John 4:3
All of those who followed Jesus as learners or pupils were baptized when they accepted the counsel of God for their lives. Disciple is:
Mathetes (g3101) math-ay-tes'; from 3129; a learner, i.e. pupil: - disciple.
We have HEARD about people preaching the need to TITHE based on the Old Covenant. Therefore, it IS possible to be a disciple and also a thief and a liar needing help.
The thief did not ask to be saved. Rather, he, like others wanted to be part of an earthly kingdom which even the disciples expected.
Basileia (g932) bas-il-i'-ah; from 935; prop. royalty, i.e. (abstr.) rule, or (concr.) a realm (lit. or fig.): - kingdom, / reign.
In the kingdom the KING can dispose of His property as He wills. And in leaving a will a person can dispose of their favors as they wish. However, after the DEATH OF THE TESTATOR the will defines how the will is carried out:
Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. Matt 18:23
The mother of zebedee's children had the same PRAYER but it was not granted and she was not converted:
And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. Mt.20:21
Jesus responded that a role in the kingdom was not possible even for the apostles. However, they would all be baptized to identify with Christ's baptism and suffer death:
But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. Matt 20:22
And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:
but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. Matt 20:23
And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren. Matt 20:24
The Thief did not participate with Christ in His kingdom.
Only after Christ established His kingdom beginning with the day of Pentecost was it possible to be baptized and have one's citizenship translated into a heavenly kingdom.
Christ would remember the thief on the cross AFTER His spiritual resurrection before His bodily resurrection. This is when Jesus would preach to the thief in paradise.
Max Lucado: How disturbing to theologians to ascend the mountain of doctrine only to be greeted by an uneducated thief who cast his lot with Christ. Here is a man who never went to church, never gave an offering, never was baptized, and said only one prayer.
Max always has a thin veil overlaying utter contempt for Bible Believing, STAFF pesticide sprayed by Jesus and Paul on anyone not dedicated to preaching the gospel as it has been taught. In a TBN production it was Max Lucado ASCENDING a mountain while they were nailing the tiny Jesus, down in the valley, with nails still being driven. Twila Paris and the Oak Hills Mocking team (Just like the Levites) were singing their own praises. Just as the nails begin to be driven into the tiny Jesus with Max high and lifted up, the "audience" began CLAPPING for Twila and the Oak Hill girls.
Why, then is Max Lucado so bent on taking over a church of Christ and make it into a radical kind of Gnostic Baptist church. Why if the thief could find salvation "outside the camp" and Paul said that we can find Christ "ONLY outside the camp," is Max with Lynn Anderson so hot to develope a SHEPHERDING or DISCIPLING system by riding over the elders? Why not sell the property and just go out telling people to ask to be in Christ's, presumed earthly kingdom and Jesus will make him a non-dues paying member.
The Greek world as well as the Hebrew identified three forms of SECTARIANISM. Jesus called them Pharisees (sellers of prayers), Scribes (book writers) and Hypocrites. They were the HYPOCRITE SECTARIANS and LEGALISTS. The hypocrites were the rhetoricians (slick speakers), sOPHISts (serpents in Revelation), singers, musicians and craftsmen. These are identified as the SORCERERS in Revelation and in the history of the world they were identified as PARASITES.
Well, we just don't know do we? He may have been baptized, may have attended synagogue since the CHURCH had not yet been established, may have prayed hourly and may, for all we know, have been a Robin Hood: stealing from the rich to give to the poor to make up for the Temple extortion.
But Bible believers have no problem because they read the facts and do not FICTIONALIZE or "narrative theology" the entire Bible. It is simply vain to suggest that the thief can be defined by Max.
It is Max and Baptist friends who wrestle the plain facts of Scripture to their own destruction trying to get SOMEONE (anyone) saved without baptism and BEFORE Jesus suffered for the sins of mankind. That was and is the definition of the baptism of pagans.
Since there is no hint at salvation, remission of sins, invitation to salvation or response to salvation and Christian Baptism WAS NOT POSSIBLE for the thief, the idea of FAITH just accepts the facts without supposing a lot of false premises and then laughing at and ridiculing others as dogmatists for not ACCEPTING the new revelation.
Max Lucado: But that prayer was enough. He has a crucial role in the gospel drama. The thief reminds us that though our dogma may be airtight and our doctrine dead-center, in the end it is Jesus who saves.
Why doesn't Max Lucado advise us to "tend the trees" where Lucifer, the harp-playing prostitute who came with wind, string and percussion instruments to wholly seduce Eve?
Why doesn't Max Lucado advise us to built an ark to SAVE his family?
Why doesn't Max Lucado advise us to RAISE OUR ARMS and march through the Red Sea?
Why didn't Jesus of Nazareth as the Lord or Holy Spirit not follow Max and tell Paul to just pray?
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord Acts 22:16
Peter must have heard that DEATHBED CONVERSION. Why didn't he tell people to just REQUEST..
(That, by the way, is what baptism pictures for us: In baptism we show that we have been saved from death and doom by the resurrection of Christ;]
not because our bodies are washed clean by the water but because in being baptized we are turning to God and asking him to cleanse our hearts from sin.) 1 Peter 3:21LIV
Max Lucado says NO: in baptism we are PLEDGING God that we will be good boys. But sins are not remitted by OUR pledge.
Jesus SAVED us all by His shed blood, but that did not wash our spirits clean so that they would become A holy or sanctified spirit, regenerated by Christ on OUR request or "knocking at the door."
But, the thief didn't pray for ANY of the things Max supposes. Max doesn't even recognize the meaning of the KINGDOM in the thief's mind.
"In his Lubbock radio sermon Max Lucado said to his listeners that:
"God is ready to be your Father. Maybe you never understood that the invitation was for everyone. Maybe you thought that you weren't worthy. Maybe now you do understand God will make you worthy and the invitation is for you, and all you have to do is call him Father. Just call him Father. Just turn your heart to him even right now as I am speaking. Call him your Father, and your Father will respond. Why don't you do that?
The "veiled" Word of God said that God came in the flesh as His "ARM" and prove that WE ARE NOT WORTHY: that is the meaning of Grace in the "olden" Bible.
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world (Satan's kingdom), according to the will of God and our Father: Ga.1:4
Rubel Shely says that we should become AS MUCH LIKE THE WORLD as possible to win the world: Jesus came to Call us OUR of the world to attend His Ekklesia or school of the Bible which "HAD NO PRAISE SERVICE."
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to TAKE OUT of them a PEOPLE for his NAME. Acts 15:14
Jesus is the Christ: His name (singular) is the NAME of Father, Son and Spirit. We are baptized in this name or we SHALL BE DAMNED, we CANNOT enter the kingdom. The world has always called the church "the church of Christ" because Jesus or Joshua in Zachariah means Jehovah- Saves. By removing the name of Christ, Oak Hills repudiates Jehovah- Saved.
And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you PURCHASED men for God FROM every tribe and language and people and nation. Re.5:9
For many are called, but few are chosen. Matt 22:14
His name is Jesus meaning Jesus the Christ: God with us. Those who hear and reject baptism exhibit the MARK OF SATAN. They tell God that He is a LIAR for putting salvation at the time and placeof baptism.
Duh! I'm gonna just call Bill Gates "Father" and I am sure that he will give me a billion! The JUST JESUS theme is anti-Christian. Jesus or Jehovah- Saves has the right to prescribe how He wants to accept those all of whom are sinners and unwashed. If Max say that the Thief is the new PATTERNISM then he slaps God in the face and tells him to get lost. Fictionalizing the Bible is a dangerous river of no return.
Our Reporter notes that:
"If Max Lucado, the minister at Oak Hills Church of Christ in San Antonio, Texas, lacks the hard edge often associated with his tradition, it isn't for lack of exposure. He grew up in it. He was baptized, at the Parkview Church of Christ in Odessa, Texas, when he was 10.
But "I don't think that a lot of the more strict teachings ever became a part of my DNA," he says.
One of the strictest is the belief that baptism -- by immersion and for the forgiveness of sins -- is an act that saves the soul.
As much as he cherishes baptism, Lucado says, "we are saved by grace."
"Baptism is a response to God's gift, not a way to earn God's gift."
Absolutely saved by Christ but how? How about associating with being impaled on a tree or going into the tomb to be covered by Jesus or rising with Him to a new man (regenerated) by God, by Jesus, by grace, by faith. But God Incarnate gets the ROLE of deciding when and how He hands out the gifts of His will. By quoting isolated proof text you can MISTEACH anything. Paul teaches the same thing to all of the churches: we are saved BY grace THROUGH faith when we are baptized into Christ and Raised in connection with Him.
Another possibility for the thief--if we needed to explain why the thief was not baptized INTO the kingdom before the kingdom was established, or saved by the blood before the blood was shed.
Here is the thief's "prayer": He didn't ask to be saved:
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. Luke 23:42
Christ, the Word would resume His Glory as full Deity before He could grant baptized believers to be added to His kingdom, the church. Therefore, "this day" did not mean that Jesus granted the thief entrance into the KINGDOM. He had no need of understanding why Jesus DID NOT answer his prayer. Peter in 1 Pet 3:21 says that Baptism is the time and place where we REQUEST a clear conscience or A holy spirit and come into the spiritual kingdom of Christ.
We noted that the mother had asked that her sons rule in the kingdom.
And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. Mt.20:21
But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. Matt 20:22
Jesus was baptized in water to FULLY PREACH the need for baptism to others. He was also baptized into His death. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission. Paul connects OUT baptism to that of Jesus as a FORM of doctrine.
Jesus had a DIFFERENT answer:
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Luke 23:43
That was where Abraham was but that was not the CHURCH or IN CHRIST.
Again, Neither did Jesus answer the prayer of the mother, but gave a more suitable answer:And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:
but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. Matt 20:23
As Son Jesus was the RIGHT HAND or ARM of God
And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. Is.59:16
Jesus is Jehovah- Saved and there is no other God.