How we are saved: part 1Engedi Ministries: How God Saves the Predestinated
David Lawrence Engedi: Steve Brown of Keylife Ministries on his Monday radio program will always make the statement, “I hope your pastor’s sermon was as good as my pastor’s sermon.” I am blessed to hear excellent sermons on a regular basis. Some months ago my pastor made a comment that he envisioned salvation as a gate, like a Roman arch, with two faces.
The arch has only one THROUGH WAY or road: we get into (eis) that road by faith but we enter by walking through to the other side: Jesus is the gate or way and Baptism is the way to get INTO Jesus Christ. The Great Commission in Matthew was to make disciples by baptizing and teaching those who had initial faith. In Mark One he returns to Malachi to define John as the forerunner and the FULLER who would wash our scarlet garments and make the white as Snow. Mark then begins to discuss the reason for the baptism by John and Jesus through His apostles. The beginning of the gospel is THE arch:
Mark says that BAPTISM is the MOST IMPORTANT part of the gospel for we who cannot die on the cross. "That form of doctrine" we obey in baptism (Rom 6) means "a pattern which can be obeyed." Only after we have obeyed, says Paul, THEN being free from sin.
THE beginning (Arche, most important) of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; Mark 1:1
As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. Mark 1:2Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon
Archê , hê, (v. archô) beginning, origin, first cause
beginning, from the first, from of old, lay a foundation,
from the beginning, from the first, from of old,
logos the original argument,
the principal sum, first principle, element
The ARCHE or foundation of the gospel is also THE WAY God predestined to save mankind FROM the race of wicked men:
(philosophia). I. Greek Philosophy.--The beginnings of philosophy in Greece came from the Ionians of Asia; and it is in agreement with the character of that people, naturally inclined to the physical or sensualist view, that what the Ionian philosophers sought was the materialprinciple (archê) of things, and the mode of their origin and disappearance...Thales declared water to be the basis of all things Arche logos the original argument, Id.Tht.177c,
The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye THE WAY of the Lord, make his paths straight. Mark 1:3
The foundation was the COUNSEL of God to prepare a tiny remnant as an offering on the day of Pentecost:
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. Mark 1:4
And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins. Mark 1:5
David Lawrence Engedi: As one approached the gate, he saw “Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life” (Rev. 22:17b).
But after he has passed through the gate and turns to look at the other side and see that under which he has come, he will see “Foreknown, predestined, called, justified, glorified” (Rom. 8:29-30).
We will show that those God KNEW BEFORE were destined to be saved BECAUSE thy had not bowed to Baal.
For whom he did foreknow,
he also did predestinate
to be conformed to the image of his Son,
that he might be the firstborn among many brethren Rom 8:29 .God KNEW the Israelite nation BEFOREHAND: He has not failed and the Word has not failed. Most of the Israelite people FAILED. However, Paul is saying that all is not lost: God did not CAST THEM AWAY when He included the Gentiles. They would have to CONFORM to the Christian system and NOT force the Gentiles to conform to the Law of Moses.
I knew my wife BEFOREHAND but this did not mean that I PREDESTINATED her to be my wife.
G4267 proginosko prog-in-oce'-ko From G4253 and G1097 ; to know beforehand, that is, foresee:--foreknow (ordain), know (before).
Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee. Ac.26:5
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Ro.11:2
Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. Rom 11:3
God did not reserve or elect the seven thousand by random choice to prove that He was God and they were not. Rather, God reserves or elects those who have chosen to obey His will.
But what saith the answer of God unto him?
who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Rom 11:4What? God has RESERVED those who did not THEMSELVES bow to Baal. If God had forced them to BOW TO BAAL don't you think God would have said so?
Rom. 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Does that mean that only DUMB people are PREDESTINATED to go to heaven?And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. Ro.9:26
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. Ro.9:7
Klesis (g2821) klay'-sis; from a shorter form of 2564; an invitation (fig.): - calling.
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 1Co.1:26
David Lawrence then launches into some "theology" but we should remember that Jesus fired the doctors of the Law because they took away the key to knowledge.
Luke 11:49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God,Does this NON-Biblical word called SOVEREIGN mean that God has a will but the doctors of the Law can STOP people from carrying out the Will of God? Can the false preacher HINDER the sovereign will of God but the BELIEVER has absolutely no will to believe? Doesn't that make God into some helpless and confused person in the image of the doctors of the law?
I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
Luke 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world,
may be required of this generation;
Luke 11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple:
verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge:
ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
David Lawrence Engedi: What he was saying is that salvation may be viewed from two different vantage points: what we see from our human point of view, and what has happened from God’s sovereign point of view.
As we analyze our own actions, we always see that we act from deliberate, free-will choices, and that is true. But unless we see the other side of the gate, which we shall not see until we have actually passed through it, we fail to understand the sovereign, gracious workings of God in our lives.
John Calvin agreed: he said that it is impossible to believe without the supernatural operation of God: He said that these were the Word of God which could produce faith and the faithful preacher to took the Word into the world. He said that anyone who thinks that the can understand the Spirit without reading the Word are fanatics. If God uses "human means" to bestow Faith how does God then take over and FORCE one to believe or not believe.
David Lawrence Engedi: As we have always emphasized, God is totally sovereign, and man is completely accountable. Man is always able, and God so insists, to act in accordance with his own desires, and he always has the freedom to choose according to his desires.
Sovereign is not a Biblical Word: If God has all power then He has the ability to create mankind with a free will. He has the LIBERTY to set up a condition of believing His statements and obeying them as a TEST of what that person will do with free will. God does not tempt us and therefore He does not manipulate us: we are drawn away by our own lust. The ability to be useful in the Spirit world is based on the ability to learn how to be faithful over a few things. Why do some believe and others do not? That is not a question God has given to us but we should never forget that the Devil has his "ministers" and one way they influence people is to PICK UP the seed as soon as they are planted. Undoubtedly he also works by convincing people that since they have no choice in the matter they can eat, drink and be merry. Does David Lawrence say that God FORCES them to obey Satan? That sets up a world view better suited to the mental institutes.
David Lawrence Engedi:What he does not have is the freedom to choose contrary to his own will, for, as Jonathan Edwards shows in his On the Freedom of the Will, will and choice are the same thing, and man always chooses according to his most immediate desire.
Now, that is brilliant! If a man weighs all of the facts and does his WILL, then for THAT man he had no other choice. That sounds like bright people who say IF I had bought that stock THEN I would be wealthy! Brilliant. A person who has MADE a choice did what he WILLED to do: wouldn't it be silly to say, "If I had jumped into that boiling oil I would be DEAD." The person used the best knowledge that he had to make a DECISION. Even John Calvin says that "faith comes by hearing the Word of God." If one believes:
He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved"Looking backward" the common people and publicans heard, and considered this the RIGHTEOUS WILL OF GOD and were therefore baptized BUT they really had no CHOICE: God forced them to do it. That rabbit trail means that God utterly failed, is NOT sovereign and it is all smoke and mirrors.
And believes BUT is not baptized he will not be saved.
If he believeth not or is Apistos he will NOT be baptized and will be DAMNED.
Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Luke 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans,
justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves,
being not baptized of him.
The Pharisees and Lawyers rejected the PREDESTINED counsel of God and were NOT baptized. That means that God's PURPOSE utterly failed.
Matt. 21:28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said
Son, go work to day in my vineyard. [That was the father's WILL]
Matt. 21:29 He answered and said,
I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. [So, God FORCED Him to have TWO WILLS]
Matt. 21:30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.Matt. 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first.The son obviously had the power to WILL something on his own and then CHANGE his will based on his reconsideration. Is God really such a silly person that He whips people one wan and then the other and THEN credits them will making the right choice of wills. If so, there is not TWO WAYS to look at free will: there is NO human will of any kind.
Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you,
That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
Matt. 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not:Did Jesus of Nazareth look backward to the GATE and find out that God FORCED Him to suffer and die on the cross? Isn't that blaspheming and denying the SOVEREIGN WILL of Jesus Christ to obey the Father.
but the publicans and the harlots believed him:
and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, [Apistos]
that ye might believe him [or prove self faithful]
Did Jesus force them to believe?
John 4:39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman,
which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
John 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
Matt. 18:14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven,The Israelite nation was chosen by God or predestinated to carry out the Abrahamic covenant and be a blessing to all nations. In the Romans 9-11 passage Paul proves that that did not mean PREDESTINATED because they fell into musical idolatry. According to Stephen in Acts 7 and many Old Testament passages, God then made them CASTAWAYS or turned them over to worship the starry host. He gave them The Law of Moses to regulate theirlives but not to save them.
that one of these little ones should perish.
The tiny remnant reserved at the time of Jesus were those who had not bowed to Baal.
Notice the two GROUPS which is always the meaning of PREDESTINATED purpose.
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob,
[1] and to restore the preserved of Israel:
[2] I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles,
[3] that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. Isa 49:6Does David Lawrence think that God FORCED most to bow to Baal. Did they think that the had NOT bowed to Baal even if it coust their lives just look back and say WE DIDN'T HAVE A CHOICE, DID WE. Well, IF is a pretty useless word to use in making dogma.Reserved does not mean predestiated but:
Esaias also crieth concerning Israel,
Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
a remnant shall be saved: Ro.9:27For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea,
yet a remnant of them shall return:
the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness. Isa 10:22But what saith the answer of God unto him?
I have reserved to myself seven thousand men,
who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Ro.11:4
John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
John 1:12 But as many as received him,
to them gave he power to become the sons of God,
even to them that believe on his name:
Those who are born again are born by the WILL of God: we didn't invent it but we certainly exercised our free will.David Lawrence Engedi: However, how often is the subject of salvation examined from both perspectives? In our next few studies we shall examine first the human viewpoint of salvation, and then the divine to see how they work together. People err when they insist that both cannot be simultaneously true, but until man has the power to scan the inscrutable, vast, eternal purposes of God’s mind, he should be a little wary of making such an assertion! Join us!
We have shown that a physical arch may have an entrance and exit, there is only one THROUGH way. We are baptized INTO Christ and that is the only way to get IN Christ. The Bible never hints that God plays games and let's us THINK that He really cares about our humanity and wants to make us into Spiritual people. But, they teach that it is all a big joke and God forced our human being to OBEY his will as the way to save us and adopt us into a spiritual kingdom.
Paul told the Roman Jews that they were blinded at Mount Sinai by refusing to listen to God: He said that they would not be able to read black text on white paper until they turned or were converted to Christ. That has the same meaning as being baptized for the remission of sins. Because David Lawrence denies that role of Baptism then he may be the one not able to read the text written down specificially to produce faith and guide our steps.
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